volatile from an environment, nature standpoint. you better be a business leader that's fast on your feet or else you won't do very well. >> rose: when i talk to political leaders especially and i say what have you learned? they say it's relationships. relationships in the end make a huge difference. it's trust, you see it at -- on the part of presidents, you see in the terms of people i've talked to, been secretary of state, secretary of defense. bill gates, a very good secretary of defense, -- bob gates said to me you need quickly to cultivate and devote time to relationships because you realize you're in this together. >> completely agree. and i would say if anything the pendulum is coming back hardener that direction. >> rose: meaning what? >> meaning coming out of the crisis. i think there's less trust in general. >> rose: it's part of the job in washington. so you value relationship very much and so there are hundreds of c.e.o.s that i know who i can pick up the phone and they trust g.e. and they trust g.e. because they know m